Final Minutes for Feb 1-5 1999 Meeting of ISO/JTC1/SC22/WG14 and NCITS/J11 WG14/N882 J11/99-017 01 Feb 98 09:00-12:00 13:30-17:00 02 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00 03 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00 04 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00 05 Feb 98 08:30-12:00 Intel Corp. Cornell Oaks Corporate Center -- Building C01 15201 N.W. Greenbrier Parkway Beaverton, Oregon 97006, USA Roger Golliver roger.a.golliver@intel.com Voice: +1 503 264-9652 Fax: +1 503 264-4515 ------------------------------------------------------------ Monday Feb 1st 8:30 -- 9:00 --- Coffee --- 9:00 -- 10:15 1. Opening activities 1.1 Opening Comments 1.2 Introduction of Participants Benito, John Perennial WG14, Convener Golliver, Roger Intel, alternate J11 Gwyn, Douglas US Army J11 Harris, Erin IBM J11, WG14, Canada Jaeschke, Rex Self J11, Chair Jones, Larry SDRC J11, Project Editor MacDonald, Tom SGI J11 Meyers, Randy Silverhills Systems J11 Nelson, Clark Intel J11 Peterson, Rich Compaq/Digital J11 Plum, Tom Plum Hall J11 Seebach, Peter Self J11 Seymour, Bill Self J11, Rationale Editor Simonsen, Keld Danish Standards WG14, Denmark HOD Thomas, Jim HP J11, alternate Tydeman, Fred Tydeman Consulting J11, Walls, Douglas Sun J11, USA HOD, and Meeting secretary Feather, Clive BSI WG14, UK HOD Tanaka, Keishiro Fujitsu WG14, Japan HOD 1.3 Host Facilities/local information 1.4 Procedures for this Meeting 1.5 Approval of Previous Minutes [N859] N872 - Final Minutes Santa Cruz (Walls) Approved No changes. 1.6 Review of Action Items and Resolutions (Done) Rex Jaeschke: procedures for update of minutes (final minutes) to be made official. Provide revision and John Benito (Open) Randy Meyers: will update previous minutes for those that he took. (Done) Benito: Send Rationale to Keld for ftp site (Done) Jan Kristoffersen+Randy Meyers words why no I/O hardware in C9X (pro and con sides). Post to reflector before include into rationale. (Done) Clive Feather - rationale for sequence points. [No longer needed]. (Done) Keld - look into putting C++ on C private ftp site for members use. Still maintain email cross posting between C and C++. (Done) We need to draft letter to request POSIX NOT include it. Done: Is part of WG14 N860. (Done) Tydeman - post where to get LIA-2. (Open) Meyers: Write rationale on 64-bit with ideas on how to reduce code size if not used. (Open) Keld Simonsen will coordinate with POSIX, WG20, Single Unix on localeconv. (Done) UK (Jones) will work on getting words along with SGI (MacDonald+Homer). (Open) Tom MacDonald: Rationale for this change to FOR (and related). (Open) Seebach craft words for rationale why we did not adopt conformance requirements in to C9X. (Open) Keld will host email-list about conformance to start with C, C++, Java. (Open) Keaton+Larry to come up with words for why Number of arguments no change needed. (Done) Tom MacDonald: add this to rationale, VLA side effects rationale as to why they are not allowed (Done) Rex Jaeschke will work on issues raised by C committee on I18N API. (Closed) Everyone: See what your implementations do for this code. Matters more to C++ (due to destructors and static data). (Done) Rex J. provide email address of NCITS Liaison (Tom Frost) to J11. tfrost@att.com (Done) Rex Jaeschke talk to Tom Frost about ballot choices. J11 members must also use official channels (Deborah Donovan, 202-626-5746, ddonovan@itic.nw.dc.us or ddonovan@itic.org). (Done) Perennial+Keaton: Provide words to Clive on Annex D removal. (Done) MacDonald: Feather #23 response. Part of restrict. (Done) (Done) Plum to coordinate with C++. Backup might be St. Louis, Missouri hosted by Seymour. (Done) Meyers: I/O Hardware words for rationale (Done) Gwyn/Benito: To notify WG15 about changes to assert. (Closed) Harris: __func rationale from Mooney. (Open) Meyers: Produce rationale for macro replacement (Open) Seebach: Provide strsep() rationale. (Closed) Feather - Rationale for struct tmx. [No longer needed]. (Open) Jones - Provide strftime() rationale. (Open) Meyers - %m rationale. 1.7 Approval of Agenda [N864] 1.8 Distribution of New Documents 1.9 Information on Next Meeting 1.10 Identification of National Bodies/J11 voting members WG14 National Bodies: Canada, U.K., U.S., Japan, Denmark J11 members who have not paid this years dues, due by 2/22/99 to avoid losing membership: Compaq, HP, Farance, Intel, Keaton, Seymour, Plum Hall, Unisys J11 voting members 15 out of 17 10:15 -- 10:30 2. Project Editor's Report [N870] (Jones) 10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break --- 10:45 -- 11:00 3. Rational Editor's Report (Seymour) 11:00 -- 11:15 4. Liaison Activities 4.1 J11 + ANSI (C) 4.2 WG14 + ISO/SC22 (C) 4.3 J16/WG21 (C++) 4.4 WG15 (Posix) 4.5 WG20 (I18N) 4.6 Other Liaison Activities 11:15 -- 11:30 5a. FCD Status Report (Benito) Voting results 13 - Yes 3 - No (Denmark, Japan, U.K.) 2 - Abstain 4 - Not voting 1 - O member voting We will resolve the comments here. If not done at this meeting there will be a follow-up WG14 meeting resolve any remaining comments. 11:30 -- 12:00 5b. Restrict [N866, N867] (MacDonald) 12:00 -- 13:30 --- LUNCH --- 13:30 -- 14:00 6. Identify work items for this meeting (Jaeschke/Benito) 14:00 -- 15:00 7. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break --- 15:15 -- 17:00 8. Subgroup deliberations and presentations Tuesday Feb 2nd 8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee --- 8:30 -- 10:30 9. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break --- 10:45 -- 12:00 10. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 12:00 -- 13:00 --- LUNCH --- 13:00 -- 15:00 11. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break --- 15:15 -- 17:00 12. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 19:00 -- Reception hosted by Intel Wednesday Feb 3rd 8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee --- 8:30 -- 10:30 13. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break --- 10:45 -- 12:00 14. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 12:00 -- 13:30 --- LUNCH --- 13:30 -- 15:00 15. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break --- 15:15 -- 15:45 16a. Side effects in VLAs (MacDonald) 15:45 -- 16:00 16b. WG20 liason issues (Simonsen) 10 - Keld reporting on Standard on cultural conventions ISO/14652 Keld as liason is seeking support from WG14 on this work. WG14 has previously expressed such support. The US at SC22 expresses opposition to this work. Request J11 IR (Walls) to investigate how the U.S. position in the SC22 tag is being formed. And communicate the J11 expression of support of the work in WG20 as WG14 makes use this (WG20) work. 16:00 -- 18:00 16c. Subgroup deliberations and presentations Thursday Feb 4th 8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee --- 8:30 -- 9:00 17a. restrict [N867] (MacDonald) SV. What should we do? Do nothing - 5 Accept as proposed - 2 Sub group to look at if we can add via different syntax - 6 9:00 -- 9:30 17b. Side effects in VLAs (MacDonald) 9:30 -- 10:30 17c. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 10:30 -- 10:45 --- Morning break --- 10:45 -- 12:00 18. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 12:00 -- 13:00 --- LUNCH --- 13:00 -- 15:00 19. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 15:00 -- 15:15 --- Afternoon break --- 15:15 -- 17:00 20. Subgroup deliberations and presentations US. Comment #1 Walls atexit call after exit should be undefined SV. Should we adopt a stack model ALL in room 10-1 WG14 2-0-3 Friday Feb 5th 8:00 -- 8:30 --- Coffee --- 8:30 -- 10:15 21. Subgroup deliberations and presentations UK. General comment #1 (line 2253 of N2872) SV - In favor of the intent as proposed here J11 8/2 WG14 4/0/1 Restrict [N867] (MacDonald) Modified in subcommittee and on the floor to use the keyword "static" SV - N867 as modified issue #2 do we want "static" used in int a [static 10] means exactly 10 elements being passed J11 - 7/1 WG14 - 3/0/2 (U.K., Denmark, U.S. - For) (Canada, Japan - Abstain) Canada comment of concern this could change Canada position don't know. SV - Do you want issue #1 allowing qualifiers in parameter array declarations, i.e. int a [restrict 10] J11 - 7/2 WG14 - 3/1/1 SV - Do you want both issue #1 and #2 together J11 - 7/1 WG14 - 3/1/1 Consensus reached on this issue. Denmark comment #1 (line 429 of N2872) SV - Adopt isblank() & iswblank() as specified in CD 9899 with the following modifications to the descriptions: Add: "The general use is for detecting word boundaries within a line." Change: "for which isalnum is false" To: "for which isspace is true" J11 - 3/0 WG14 - 3/0/2 Consensus reached on this issue. 10:15 -- 10:30 --- Morning break --- 10:15 -- 10:30 22. Separate WG14 admin and J11/U.S. TAG meetings 10:30 -- 11:30 23. Subgroup deliberations and presentations 23.1 Disposition of comments [N873] The disposition (resolution) of all comments on FCD 9899 recording the changes to be applied to C9X to produce the FDIS from the FCD are recorded in N873. 11:30 -- 12:00 24. Administration 24.1 Future Meetings 24.1.1 Future Meeting Schedule Jun 21-25, 1999 London BSI Oct 18-22, 1999 Hawaii Plum Hall 24.1.2 Future Agenda Items 24.1.3 Future Mailings (sponsor for WG14 mailings) post-Portland deadline March 5, 1999 pre-London deadline May 28, 1999 Submit input for rationale revision by April 1, 1999 24.2 Resolutions 24.2.1 Review of Decisions Reached 24.2.2 Formal Vote on Resolutions 24.2.3 Review of Action Items Prior meetings: *AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke: procedures for update of minutes (final minutes) to be made official. Provide revision and John Benito *AI: (Open) Randy Meyers: will update previous minutes for those that he took. *AI: (Done) Benito: Send Rationale to Keld for ftp site *AI: (Done) Jan Kristoffersen+Randy Meyers words why no I/O hardware in C9X (pro and con sides). Post to reflector before include into rationale. *AI: (Done) Clive Feather - rationale for sequence points. [No longer needed]. *AI: (Done) Keld - look into putting C++ on C private ftp site for members use. Still maintain email cross posting between C and C++. *AI: (Done) We need to draft letter to request POSIX NOT include it. Done: Is part of WG14 N860. *AI: (Done) Tydeman - post where to get LIA-2. *AI: (Open) Meyers: Write rationale on 64-bit with ideas on how to reduce code size if not used. *AI: (Open) Keld Simonsen will coordinate with POSIX, WG20, Single Unix on localeconv. *AI: (Done) UK (Jones) will work on getting words along with SGI (MacDonald+Homer). *AI: (Open) Tom MacDonald: Rationale for this change to FOR (and related). *AI: (Open) Seebach craft words for rationale why we did not adopt conformance requirements in to C9X. *AI: (Done) Keld will host email-list about conformance to start with C, C++, Java. *AI: (Open) Keaton+Larry to come up with words for why Number of arguments no change needed. *AI: (Done) Tom MacDonald: add this to rationale, VLA side effects rationale as to why they are not allowed *AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke will work on issues raised by C committee on I18N API. *AI: (Closed) Everyone: See what your implementations do for this code. Matters more to C++ (due to destructors and static data). *AI: (Done) Rex J. provide email address of NCITS Liaison (Tom Frost) to J11. tfrost@att.com *AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke talk to Tom Frost about ballot choices. J11 members must also use official channels (Deborah Donovan, 202-626-5746, ddonovan@itic.nw.dc.us or ddonovan@itic.org). *AI: (Done) Perennial+Keaton: Provide words to Clive on Annex D removal. *AI: (Done) MacDonald: Feather #23 response. Part of restrict. (Done) *AI: (Done) Plum to coordinate with C++. Backup might be St. Louis, Missouri hosted by Seymour. *AI: (Done) Meyers: I/O Hardware words for rationale *AI: (Done) Gwyn/Benito: To notify WG15 about changes to assert. *AI: (Closed) Harris: __func rationale from Mooney. *AI: (Open) Meyers: Produce rationale for macro replacement *AI: (Open) Seebach: Provide strsep() rationale. *AI: (Closed) Feather - Rationale for struct tmx. [No longer needed]. *AI: (Open) Jones - Provide strftime() rationale. *AI: (Open) Meyers - %m rationale. New action item: *AI (Open) Clive, Provide London (6/99) meeting info. *AI (Open) Rex, Needs to provide responses to individuals submitting U.S. comments on the FCD *AI (Open) All, Resolutions of all comments needed by end this meeting in electronic form. *AI (Open) Walls, Request of the SC22 tag how the US position on ISO/14652, the Standard on cultural conventions is being formed. J11 would like to express an opinion. WG14 has expressed to SC22 they use this work. *AI (Done) Keld, to send Walls previous US position on ISO/14652 *AI (Open) MacDonald rationale side-effects in VLA *AI (Open) MacDonald rationale for static added to array parameter syntax 24.2.4 Thanks to Host 24.3 Other Business 12:00 25. Adjournment ------------------------------------------------------------ Minutes for the J11/U.S. TAG Meeting, Friday Feb 5th at 10:15 Walls reported on the results of the FCD 9899 ballot Question: I support the approval of FCD 9899: Information technology - Programming languages - Programming Language C (Revision of ISO/IEC 9899:1990) 4 - Yes 12 - Yes, with comment (All comments were the same *) 0 - No 1 - Not voting, letter ballot not returned * All U.S. public comments should be forwarded as a part of the U.S. position on FCD 9899: Information technology - Programming languages - Programming Language C (Revision of ISO/IEC 9899:1990). The vote we cast on the FCD is the same vote used on the FDIS by default, unless we notify Debbie otherwise. Saves us from having to do a letter ballot on the FDIS. FM (Gwyn/Benito) - J11 recommends a yes vote on FDIS 14/0/0/1/15 Walls reported yes vote on ISO/IEC DIS 16509 forward to SC22 tag. Appoint delegation and HOD for future WG14 meetings. U.S. Delegations for Jun 1999 Meeting as decided at October 1998 TAG meeting in Santa Cruz Douglas Walls (HOD) Larry Jones Bill Seymour Tom MacDonald Chair ask is we shall adopt the same group for October 1999, no objections.